Not a new author to me. Love David Joy’s actual writing so he’ll probably always get 5 stars. I would give the actual story 4 stars though. It was great Joy took so much care with the subject matter and nothing was too violent, gratuitous, or preachy + absolutely loved the character of grandmother Vess but I agree with other reviews that say if you already believe in the statement Black Lives Matter vs. “All Lives Matter” this book “is only preaching to the choir” and not offering anything super new there. Don’t get me wrong. There are people who need to read this story from a proud southern man who walks among them (but reads books and has empathy for others) but do THOSE people read for pleasure?? Do those people do anything but write everything off to call anything too woke? I almost wish this story had just been turned inside out and we knew who did what (or at least who killed the artist) from the get go and the book was just what face they were keeping in public knowing they committed the crimes and were “untouchable” in their communities while the family of the victim grieved the loss of a bright thriving young woman, activist, and artist because neither crime was a mystery to anyone that has ever read a book and it wouldn’t have changed the book that much for me personally.

I figured out pretty quickly how the story would end, and it didn’t really cover any new ground as far as race discussions go, but I still enjoyed it.
Thanks to #netgalley and #gpputnamssons for this #arc of #thosewethoughtweknew by #davidjoy in exchange for an honest review.

Thank you Netgalley for this ARC of Those We Thought We Knew by David Joy.

This is now by second book by David Joy and if I've learned anything about him, he's not going to play nice with you. He has no regard for your feelings, but somehow takes care of them anyway. Definitely don't pick his stuff up if you're not in a good place.

This feels like a spoiler, but how can it be, when it's right in the title. This is a story about Those We Thought We Knew. When it comes to issues like racism, social justice, inequality, reform, social change, who can we count on? Who is in our corner? And who is the nice guy that would turn a blind eye to obvious injustices. Who is the white friend who would fight hard to protect caustic traditions? That's a large crux of this story, and it's brutal, but it will definitely make you think. It's well written and worth reading, just take care of yourself.

David Joy's work is earthy, tangible, gritty in the best sense of the word. His characters live close to the land even as his prose soars high above it. "Those We Thought We Knew" takes Joy's readers into provocative territory, asking them to consider their own thoughts on race and racial relations in America. The answers, all too often, are heartbreaking and tragic. This is a challenging read, not because of the quality of the writing but because of the questions it inspires. Highly recommended.

Thanks to Book of the Month Club, David Joy introduced me to one of those lesser known authors who I think deserves more attention, and I followed up The Line That Held Us by finishing his whole backlist.

He is so good at creating a strong sense of place and the comparison to Flannery O’Connor is fair. His stories always expose a dark side of humanity but his characters are not flat or stereotypical but written as real people.

This was not my favorite book of his. It felt very different than his others, less gritty and more philosophical and sentimental. In reading interviews with Joy about this book, it seems as though he wanted to write a story that would prompt white readers to wrestle with questions of racism as he has done in the past. I think I just felt like the story was at the mercy of the message and consequently lacked a certain impact. There were some very overtly racist characters but then the more subtle revelations of racism from other characters weren’t really explorer as much as they could have. There were a few conversations about things like the meaning of the Confederate flag and white people not noticing racism or speaking up against jokes and discrimination but that’s as far as it went.

The pacing was slow, particularly in the beginning, and I was never fully drawn in to the story. The story itself didn’t feel particularly original and actually felt like it was missing some pieces. It feels unfinished and rushed. A few important plot points were skipped over and briefly summarized after the fact but I wanted more.

So overall, this just felt underwhelming and didn’t live up to my expectations. I will, however, still read probably every book Joy writes.

THIS book! This book has solidified David Joy's spot in my list of favorite authors. His writing is so poignant and beautifully descriptive and so full of truth. The characters he creates are so richly developed but very flawed - so very human.

I need everybody to read this one. It's so relevant during times like these where people are defending songs like "Try That In A Small Town". I loved this book because the story was gripping and intense, but it also left me with a sadness at how real world the story is.

I don't normally do quotes from books, but this one I feel compelled to. Here are my favorites from this ARC:

“You can be proud of where you come from and not proud of everything that history entails. That’s what so many of these people don’t seem to be able to wrap their heads around."

&

"There were people in this world so privileged that the notion of enduring any discomfort at all, even for a second, struck them as trauma."

I highly recommend this book. Please read it! It was released today, so go find it. 5 ⭐️'s.

Dang - why aren’t people talking about this book? I think there’s some fear with the fact that he’s a white man telling a story in the south but man this is good. Will be telling everyone I know to read this.

murder mystery at its finest. The book is perfect for those that want a deeper murder mystery. very fast moving plot involving klan and deeply rooted racism.

Those we Thought We Knew is a conversation on race. It is sort of a mystery, although the name pretty much gives away the solution. Toya is a fiercely individual black artist from Atlanta, working on her thesis. She's staying with her grandmother Vess in a rural town in North Carolina for the summer, using space in a studio in the local college to work, covered in clay. Toya is also an activist and early in the novel, she gets some friends to help her create an installation at the college that is shocking to some members of the community and forces a few to confront the racial divide in the town. It means Sheriff Coggins has to get involved and he wishes, wishes, wishes Toya would cool it, while giving her a break due to his friendship with Vess. David Joy sets up a variety of relationships and points of view as well as a couple of very violent crimes, to educate us on racial perspectives. I like how he illustrates the fundamental ignorance of a lot of white people about their assumptions on race and how the Black characters consistently hold us accountable. The story is well written.

I admit that the same thing I like about this novel, felt stereotypically constructed. It was as if David Joy had a checklist of issues he wanted to cover and he created characters and vignettes for each. A traditional Klan man. A new age Klan man. People everyone knew were Klan members. People no one guessed were Klan members. A white guy loved in the community who was always close fishing buddies with a Black guy who was loved in the community. The matriarch of a Black family who goes along to get along. The daughter of the matriarch who left and succeeded in a career away from the exhausting pressures of growing up in a town stifling to a young Black girl.. The back woods, kind of dumb red neck. The Black minister. Members of the police and sheriffs department with varying degrees of reactions to change from totally close minded to evolving. I know how much I as a white person need to learn, every day, about privilege, about the permeation of racism, about microagression, about resisting the truth because it's too hard (fragility) and so I appreciated this lesson couched in an entertaining story. It is well written. It is entertaining. It is not too much. It should be taught in Florida.

David Joy’s most recent novel returns us to his home state of North Carolina for a deeply personal and pertinent story of racism, cultural identity, family, and community. The tightly woven narrative propels you forward while David’s literary prowess shines in each sentence and descriptive detail. An important book for our times and another hit from one of the best in the biz.

Set in North Carolina in 2019, this is the story of a town that is forced to face some truths that they would prefer not to see. Toya Gardner is a 24 year old Black artist who is spending time with her grandmother Vessa while she completes her master’s thesis. Toya is from Atlanta, and has not spent much time at the ancestral home. What she sees in this small town jars her. And she has not been raised to turn away from conflict. Her first act of defiance is to create an art installation, drawing attention to the fact that a college had moved the buried remains of African and Native Americans to make room for a new college hall. “They bulldozed a Cherokee mound and razed a Black church. Those are the things that school chose to move.” Toya’s second conflict comes when she defaces a Confederate monument. Drawing the ire of many who refuse to acknowledge its racist significance.

Around the same time as Toya’s arrival, William Dean Cawthorn is arrested for sleeping one off in his car. Cawthorn is a member of the KKK from Mississippi, who has arrived armed and carrying a list of Klan members, including prominent members of this town. One of these citizens is Slade Ashe, who tells Cawthorn that “white power’s not just some catchphrase, son, some hollow slogan you get tattooed on your back. No, it’s as real a thing as the shine on these boots.” (Boots he has just had shined by a young woman from Senegal who has been imported to town for the summer, purportedly to “build a little job experience”.) Cawthorn is way too crude for Ashe. The new KKK has “traded our robes for business suits” (although the robes still come out when a statement needs to be made.) Deputy Ernie Allison wants to delve further into Cawthorn’s list, but it suspiciously disappears after the arrest.

This book had wonderful, complex characters and a plot that kept me constantly engaged. The author did not shy away from presenting different points of view. The book went in a direction that I was not expecting. I was completely shocked at the end of Part I of the book. I thought that it was slightly disingenuous that so many didn’t notice the Klan (or at least their beliefs) in their midst. But that was sort of the point of the book. You don’t see what is right in front of your face until you are forced to, even when you are extremely close to someone.

I love this author so much. I recommend every book I’ve read by him. I listened to the audiobook narrated by Macleod Andrews. He did an excellent job.

I received a free copy of this book from the publisher.

Well this one ended up being very different than what I was expecting. I thought the premise sounded so good. Don't get me wrong , it was a good story… it was descriptive and atmospheric, but I really struggled with the pacing. It was quite slow, and predictable.

Toya Gardner is a young Black artist from Atlanta who returns to her ancestral home in North Carolina to trace her family history. While there, she sees a Confederate monument and then vows to do something about it. Meanwhile , deputies find a man sleeping in his station wagon and upon further search of his vehicle find out that he is a high ranking member of the Klan. He also has a notebook with locals names in it which could threaten the community.

I think that Joy has gift for writing but this one just wasn't my favorite. I feel like this was maybe too cliche, like a story that has been told many times over.

Thank you to the publisher and netgalley for the gifted copy. All opinions are my own. My review will be posted on Instagram, Goodreads, and Amazon.

In a Nutshell: A literary fiction combining a crime investigation with a social issue. Powerful in prose, impactful in intent. A must-read for those who like deeper fictional content representing today’s world.

Story Synopsis:
Twenty-four-year-old Toya is an artist with a strong social bone. When she returns to her ancestral home in the mountains of North Carolina to complete her graduate thesis (connected to her family history), she is gobsmacked to find a Confederate monument standing in the heart of the town.
When local deputies get reports of a strange man sleeping in the back of a station wagon, they are stunned to find a white KKK robe & hood in his car, and a notebook containing the names of several high-ranking officials.
Soon, there are two horrendous crimes in the county. And we, just like the characters, are forced to wonder if we ever know “those we thought we knew.”
The story comes to us in a limited third person perspective of some of the key characters.

Bookish Yays:
✔ Excellent setting, making perfect use of the author’s local knowledge of the N. Carolina mountains and the county of Sylva.
✔ Character-oriented storytelling at its finest, without ever slacking the pace.
✔ Impeccably-sketched characters, many of whom make your question the assumptions you might make about people. It’s not just that the characters were morally gray, but they are ordinary people with hackneyed thinking – the kind who don’t allow society to be anything other than what they want it to be.
✔ While I could guess the identity of the perpetrator, it did not, in any way, take away from my experience of the story. The reveal is hinted at multiple times and though we don’t want to accept it, we are forced to open our eyes to the hidden truth, both fictional and factual.
✔ Through Toya’s pov, we get to see some amazing revelations about modern art. I am not really a fan of what passes as “art” in the contemporary world, but her thoughts made tremendous sense to me.
✔ So many brilliant lines that made me pause and ponder! One of my favourites was, “Keeping your mouth shut is the same thing as nodding your head.”
✔ Love the title - so suitable and so significant! It’s applicable beyond political and geographical boundaries.
✔ Quite a few amazing themes, including but not limited to intergenerational trauma, racial prejudice, gender discrimination, entitlement, and judgemental thinking. Also brings up a few points about some key problem areas in US history such as the slavery of Blacks, the confederacy, and the KKK.
✔ Despite the pertinent issues, the writing doesn’t bulldoze us with edifying warnings. The themes are raised through the unfurling events than through spoonfeeding or forcefeeding.
✔ I was so sure this brilliant work was by a Black writer, not because of its writing or of its social relevance but because of the perspective it provided on racist issues. Reading the author’s bio after completing the book gave me a pleasant surprise. This faulty perception of mine also indicates how conditioned we are to jump to stereotypical conclusions based on half-baked assumptions. I love it when a book makes me rectify my erroneous opinions. Respect to the author for writing a book with such an impartial view!

Bookish Nays:
No major ‘Bookish Nays’ at all. The only thing that was a tad annoying to me was the tendency to use the word ‘barefooted’ in many characters’ initial description. I guess we Indians are barefoot so many times at home that this isn’t even a stand-out character trait to me. To see the word pop up thirteen times in a single book was weird!

All in all, I loved this rural noir that offered me so much to reflect upon. It shines a harsh light on contemporary society, and I am sure the life lessons included (without being in-your-face about it) are relevant much beyond those sylvan mountains.

Strongly recommended to all those who read literary crime stories with a focus on significant social matters.

4.5 stars, rounding up without hesitation.

My thanks to Penguin Group, G.P. Putnam's Sons, and NetGalley for the DRC of “Those We Thought We Knew”. This review is voluntary and contains my honest opinion about the book.

David Joy's mystery, Those We Thought We Knew, set in the North Carolina mountains, explores issues of racism, corruption, generational privilege, betrayal, forgiveness, and the power of art.

"I don't know what to say," Coggins said, and that was the truth. He'd come with empty hands and now they were full, and he didn't know what to do with what he was holding. What she'd handed him was heavy and he had no place to sit it down.

Toya Gardner has returned from Atlanta to her rural North Carolina town to track her family's history and finish her thesis for graduate school. But the young Black artist encounters a local Confederate statue that is still standing, and its existence shifts her focus and energy.

Meanwhile, a man from outside the community believed to be living in his station wagon turns out to be a Klan member--and he has a notebook full of the names of local residents.

When two terrible crimes shake the small community, they also bring to light generations of dark history and dangerous secrets.

I felt torn about this book. The issues it raises are powerful: generational racism and privilege, the power of art, and abhorrent tendencies that may be overlooked or willfully ignored within a community, to tragic ends.

Yet I thought some of the characters' shock at seeing racism, hatred, ignorance, and fear laid bare felt naive, while some of these same characters' moments of awakening to their own racism and their realizations of their own privilege felt too easy.

The evil at the center of the mystery was a surprise because of the varied points of view, so while I felt a little bit manipulated, I was also glad to not have been certain of the disturbing truth behind the deadly mystery.

"I guess there comes a moment you start realizing that keeping your mouth shut's the same thing as nodding your head."

I found myself wanting more character development--particularly regarding the younger members of the police force, who are immensely appealing and interestingly faulted. But the book was driven by plot, multiple mysteries, the North Carolina mountain setting, and the story's social commentary on race, racism, power, and art.

I received a prepublication edition of this title courtesy of NetGalley and Penguin Group Putnam, G.P. Putnam's Sons.

David Joy is also the author of the wonderful When These Mountains Burn as well as Where All Light Tends to Go, The Weight of This World, and a memoir, Growing Gills: A Fly Fisherman's Journey.

(𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘬𝘴 𝘵𝘰 @𝘱𝘶𝘵𝘯𝘢𝘮𝘣𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 #𝘨𝘪𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘰𝘰𝘬.) David Joy has earned his place as an auto-buy author for me with great books, one after the other. His latest, 𝗧𝗛𝗢𝗦𝗘 𝗪𝗘 𝗧𝗛𝗢𝗨𝗚𝗛𝗧 𝗪𝗘 𝗞𝗡𝗘𝗪, adds to that list, though I would call this one a bit of a departure for Joy in that it’s not quite as gritty as some of his earlier novels.⁣
⁣
The story centers on a small North Carolina community split apart by two horrific crimes. Talking about specifics of either crime would amount to spoilers and I don’t want to do that. I will say that the heart of the story is a close examination of long held beliefs around the history of racism within the community and the extent to which it lives on in the present day. It also looks at relationships within that community and how things may not always be as they appear on the surface. ⁣
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As I alluded to before, 𝘛𝘩𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘞𝘦 𝘛𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘞𝘦 𝘒𝘯𝘦𝘸 is not an “on the edge of your seat” thriller, but more of a slow unraveling of beliefs and misconceptions that have led to tragedy after tragedy. There’s more to be learned from this book and definitely more that will leave you thinking throughout. It’s a timely story and one I believe people will be very glad they’ve read. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Those We Thought We Knew is a rather slow book, although the beginning’s build is critical. We need to get to know these characters. We need to know what they’re all about. Joy created tension by simply allowing his characters to do their thing, as we can clearly recognize the unfair danger that certain individuals are bound to face because of their actions.

The book shines with its important, thought provoking observations. Joy did not simply cover overt racism, but that which is hidden in our everyday expressions and, in some cases, acts of so called patriotism. It is a commendable tackling of distressing, controversial, and realistic subject matter and it stirs emotion as it digs into loss.

I really wish I had liked it more.

Unfortunately, despite all of the wonderful things it addressed, I found the book rather dull. I had to continuously go back to reread whole paragraphs because my mind kept wandering. The narrative failed to fully engage me.

There was also an air of familiarity about it. I’m not saying that this exact story has already been told, but it followed a formula that lacked originality, right down to the big reveal of the lone culprit for the murder case.

Obviously, I don’t think this will be everyone’s experience with it, but the writing style and the delivery failed to truly captivate me. I do believe it will foster important discussions and that matters more than my perspective on the way the story was told.

I am immensely grateful to G.P. Putnam’s Sons and NetGalley for my copy. All opinions are my own.

In his mesmerizing work, "Those We Thought We Knew," David Joy masterfully transports readers to the landscapes of the American South. Through intricate storytelling, Joy navigates the ever-shifting terrain of contemporary perspectives on critical social and cultural issues. The narrative artfully unveils the ghosts of our past, casting their shadows on the canvas of the present.

Joy's characters are compelling, each drawing the reader into their individual journeys. The narrative's depth prompts introspection, encouraging readers to reflect on the intricate web of connections that define us.
As a newcomer to Joy's literary universe, I am left with a desire to delve further into his body of work. "Those We Thought We Knew" is a testament to Joy's ability to weave mystery and contemplation into a seamless narrative, urging us to confront our past and engage thoughtfully with the present.

NetGalley ARC 3.75 stars

I don't want to spoil the plot, but the book deals with two brutal crimes in a rural North Carolina community.

David Joy's writing is really beautiful, but I found the book light on plot, with several storylines left unfinished. The best parts of the book are the deep character dives. Vess's enjoyment and pride in her grand daughter Toya. The Sherriff trying to come to terms with the towns racist past and present. A deputy's deep reaction to racist fellow cops, a possible local chapter of the KKK and local corrupt government. The book ends with a reckoning of the fate of this small town.

Those We Thought We Knew is my first experience reading David Joy's deft plotting and gritty narrative skills and it will not be the last! The title is especially meaningful to me as a native of the segregated South who left early and never went back to stay. Character and narrative development are impeccable and make it hard to find a place to pause for eating and sleeping. Highly recommended.

David Joy does gritty like no one else and Those We Thought We Knew was no exception. Pick this up from some page turning fun paired with emotional pull!